Homey Community Forum

State of z-wave


#1

I am surprised to see that the range of z-wave products today is basically the same as for three years ago. No new and exciting products (a double flush dimmer or a good dimmer plug would be useful, also some improved sensors). I personally believe that the future is in ZigBee, especially since IKEA is betting hard on it, but also because of the price (I guess due to patent licensing for z-wave tech?). But ZigBee is so much more immature (bad cross-vendor support, more dependent on controller, etc).

Where does the momentum of product development lie these days? Apple HomeKit? Apparently that seems what Fibaro is doing today…

This is not meant as a rant, but more of an open though on where to invest for the future. Many of the home automation thingies are supposed to last a couple of years.


#2

(-) Zigbee inherently will have more issues as the format isn’t as ‘forced’ and allows companies more ‘freedom’ consequently its hard to implement into controllers.

But yes …

(+) so much cheaper Xiaomi Zigbee contact sensor - $8 - fibaro - $90.
(+) Also dont forget it comes standard with in alexa now as well.
(+) One frequency world wide, soI can buy from anywhere.

(-) The hardest thing for me (in Australia) is finding (certified to not burn down your house) powered Zigbee device in which to extend the mesh with…

(=) At the moment (and for the next couple of years) I think the best bet is to bet on a controller which supports both Zigbee and Zwave and to not over commit to one protocal.

Also dont forget about BLE and Weave and what ever apple tries to take over with to get their royalties.


#3

Yes, having a controller that supports both is reasonable. But in 5 years, will such controller exist? Will z-wave devices still be around?

The downside of mixing tech is that everything goes through the controller, which adds a lot of latency (as compared with z-wave associations which almost feels like a wired switch).

As for cheap, yes it looks like the Chinese haven’t made cheap clones for z-wave as for ZigBee. I buy the cheap stuff for battery powered devices but not anything connected to the grid.

Don’t you have the IKEA devices in Australia? They are almost China cheap.


#4

Z-wave should be free for manufacturers, so that can’t explain the price.
Look at Neo Coolcam, they were very cheap a year ago. Now prices have doubled, just because they became so popular I guess…

Zigbee is too complicated with all their different profiles and versions.
I hope with the new 700-platform z-wave gets some new products and/or the price goes down.

Also, @Jamie, 90$ for a Fibaro sensor? You buy the 24K gold edition or what? :smile:
I admit Fibaro is more expensive than most brands, but that’s exaggerating a bit :slight_smile:


#5

We do not have Ikea bulbs, but even if we did - I don’t have anywhere to put them as myself (and a lot of australian homes built in the last 20 years) use downlights. There were government rebates to replace iridescent lights with led lights and at the time there was no such thing as a LED globe.

I was no exaggerating, you are lucky if you can get a zwave sensor for $90 over here … First results form google :


#6

Australia is expensive, lots of import rights?
Here in Europe it is around €50-60


#7

OMG! Those prices are just crazy!? Why is that? Because you live on an island? Is everything that expensive in Australia?

That’s still to expensive :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

Less demand, so I imagine it costs more to produce products for our region, shipping (though we are closer to china), and largely we find ‘because they can’.

At about $110 for a fibaro dimmer 2, and by law it has to be installed by a qualified electrician … this little hobbie can get quite expensive.


#9

1 euro = AUD1.5899


#10

1 Zwave Contact sensor = 9 Xiaomi Zigbee Sensors


#11

Yeah, don’t get me started. Us and NZ combined population barely over 30mil. So not much demand.
Perhaps we need to convince Brazil using more z-wave as they have the population and same freq as us.

If z-wave then buy Aeotec @Jamie as you save some 10 to 15%. Much more variety than Fibaro and all have z-wave plus unlike Fibaro. Plus the app is nowhere near buggy as Fibaro.


#12

IKEA has got wall plugs now. Good stuff, but hard to get by as they are always out of stock.

Yes, not a lot of modern lamps take the big sockets, but they also have the smaller halogen-type sockets I assume downlights use.

And as for Fibaro price, i believe people mixes up AUD with USD.


#13

125 AU$ is still 80€ which is still a ridiculous price… :slight_smile:


#14

No we have integrated led units, all of which is completely beside the point because a) we don’t have IKEA globes or power plugs. and b) the fact that your relying on one brand in order to create a zigbee mesh is terrifying. c) I belive in devices which work as the end user assumes they will. eg. if the light isnt on … use the switch to turn it on. Not go into the app and make sure that the it hasn’t been dimmed to 5%. : that is - smart switches.

I’m not anti zigbee - in fact I think its great, but I believe world wide it is much harder to create a mesh and in Australia is it is practically impossible which is only made worse by the 20 device limit.


#15

I asked because I was curious. Integrated LED fixtures were definitely uncommon here 20 years ago. Most integrated lights had socketed halogen bulbs.

I agree totally. I was just pointing out that cheap good quality (as in won’t burn down your house, not saying the software is good) mains powered ZigBee devices do exist.

I have so far gone with Fibaro everywhere I could. The latency of bouncing through the Homey when a switch is pressed is simply horrible. With associations in z-wave, even wireless connections have decent latency. Latency and familiarity is key to getting acceptance by the rest of the family.

But I find Zigbee lights like Hue or Ikea very useful when creating fully automated things like mood lights that follow a timer or garden lights that follow the sun. This is where the Homey excels IMHO